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How to Use Account-based Sales Development to Drive Sales Growth, with Lars Nilsson [Episode 307]

My guest on this episode is Lars Nilsson, VP of Global Inside Sales at Cloudera, and a pioneer in the development of the account-based sales development model. In this episode, Lars and I discuss the evolution of Account-Based Sales Development (ABSD), and how Cloudera is effectively using ABSD to drive its sales growth with major accounts. We also get into how to align the various responsibilities of sales & marketing and talk about big data & sales analytics and how to manage them.

Key Takeaways

Lars explains the elements of account-based sales development and how it differs from traditional sales.
Lars describes how the business model at Cloudera, selling big data solutions to large enterprises, forced him to develop a new sales model.
How many contacts should be targeted in an account based email campaign (by account size.)
Lars describes the essential touch points of a 3-step account targeted email campaign.
The essential elements required in your first targeted email message to engage the interest of the customer.
Lars shares the open rates and reply rates of their account targeted emails.
Who the subject matter experts are that you need to write your targeted emails in industry language.
What is the smart technology account-based teams need to coordinate their outreach campaigns.
Lars talks about creating career paths for SDRs, Renewal Sales Reps, Corporate Account Managers, and Outside Enterprise Account Executives.

More About Lars Nilsson

What’s your most powerful sales attribute?

Telling stories.

Who is your sales role model?

Kevin Mosier and Tom Riley.

What’s one book that every salesperson should read?

The Greatest Salesman in the World by Og Mandino.

What music is on your playlist right now?

Elton John, Simon and Garfunkel.

Episode Transcript

Andy Paul (AP)

It’s time to Accelerate. I’m your host, Andy. Join me as I host conversations with the leading experts in sales, marketing sales, automation, sales process, leadership, management, training, coaching, any resource that I believe will help you accelerate the growth of your sales, your business and most importantly, you.

Hello and welcome to Accelerate. I’m looking forward to talk with my guest today. Joining me is Lars Nilsson, VP of global inside sales at Cloudera, and a pioneer in the development of the account-based sales development model. Lars, welcome to Accelerate.

Lars Nilsson (LN)

I appreciate it. It took me a while to get here. I am happy we connected.

Yeah. Likewise. So, take a minute, maybe introduce yourself. Tell me how you got your start in sales.

Yeah, I got my start in sales exactly 29 years ago. I did our campus interviews at the University of California, Santa Barbara. And I interviewed for this kind of an entry level sales position with both IBM and Xerox. And I ended up taking the position with Xerox because at the time, they had arguably the best sales training organization or program plan. And I was told by a mentor to go get trained how to sell. So, I sold copiers for the first five years of my career.

Copiers. I know lots of people start with Xerox.

Yeah. It was an unbelievable opportunity to learn how to present, to negotiate, to handle objections, to close. All the kind of classroom things and companies back then that invested time with their kind of new hires out of college.

Yeah, I got my start in a very similar program. So, you did copiers for five years. Then how’d you start getting your way into the valley and startups and so on?

Yeah, I left Xerox for a Swedish biotech firm, still selling hardware. It was selling titanium dental implants to oral surgeons. That got me my move up to the valley up here in the San Francisco area, and it was in the mid 90s. And the bubble was just taking off and Netscape had gone public a few three years earlier. And I have some friends that said, “Lars, you have the kind of disposition and the attitude and the “hyperness” to love this space.” And they were right. My first entry into the valley was a venture backed company called Portal Software, and I joined them in 1997.

So, you work for a Swedish company. I read somewhere you speak Swedish, right?

I do. My parents emigrated when I was very young. But I spent 18 summers in Sweden. So, it is a big part of my culture and background, and it was my first language so, I do speak it fluently and I still go back every year for at least a week.

Wow. Yeah, one of my favorite places. I spend a lot of time in Stockholm on business and a very pretty city. Especially if you’re there in the summer as opposed to the supposed to the winter.

I just got back two weeks ago from having spent mid-summer there. So, I went back a second time.

Yeah. One of my first experiences with international business was in Sweden. I’ll tell you the story about walking into my first meeting, meeting the President of this company that was actually the national telephone company. And just as I was walking in the building, first international business meeting, I get hit by pigeons, walking in the door to this meeting, all over my head and my shoulders and it’s like, welcome to Stockholm. But it was right at just a couple weeks shy of the longest day of the year. Alright, let’s get into this topic about account-based sales development, because it’s something that I think is familiar to people that work with tech companies, we have fairly broad audience here, people that sell to the enterprise but really aren’t familiar with the concept. So maybe if you could define first of all what it means.

Yeah. So, there are two key parts of that, are account-based and sales development. And I’ll start with sales development because it’s a little bit– I started for this company, Portal Software, about 20 years ago, when my manager who was managing outside enterprise class sales, turned to me and said, “Lars, I don’t want my reps generating appointments, I don’t want them cold calling and I don’t want them following up my boundaries. I want you to build me an organization that does that for my guys. I want my guys in the field, selling, negotiating and closing. I don’t want them wasting time.” In his words, cold calling, and following up on all these, thousands upon thousands of inbound marketing qualified leads. So that’s what I did. So, a sales development rep is a very formal and very mature role today. And if you have a sales development organization, for the most part means that you have a group dedicated– selling professionals that are setting up appointments, so they don’t retire quota, they don’t carry quota, to close anything other than an appointment for someone that understands that technology that you’re about to be selling to them. And it’s the handoff of a company that is interested and knows about your technology to selling it professionally.

Alright. So inside salesperson, or the inside sales development rep to– what could be an inside account rep or field rep.

Correct. Exactly right. And then the other part is the account based and again before the notion of account-base which probably became really popular a year or two ago on the marketing side, marketing and sales were really trying to prospect to anyone and everyone that they thought could be interested, and certainly there were marketing organizations that were doing programs and doing events to try to get eyeballs and interest into the company. But the count-based approach today is very formulaic. If you as the company selling a solution or a product, understands the exact makeup in the type of company that should be interested in your products, then go ahead and target them, very specifically target the procurers, the influencers, the decision makers for that technology with a relevant message, irrelevant message that talks to the use cases that your solution can help them solve. Talking about the pain points. It was amazing today is that, 10, 15, 20 years ago, it was very difficult to prospect into individual contributors, or managers, or directors, even VPS, they weren’t found in any relevant databases. You really could only target a C-level executive that you could find in these curated databases like Hoovers, for one source, but today we’re and data.com and that prospect, you can legitimately pinpoint the role and the title. Hopefully, you understand who makes these decisions for a target company, send them the message in hopes that you’re targeting your message at the right person, at a company that you believe should understand what you’re doing and also that you’re interested to talk to.

Right. Well, and one things that with the account-based focus is, what you’re hoping as you get away from this pure sort of focus that we see with a lot of inside sales company or sales inside sales teams on sort of quantity versus quality. And it seems like they count based sales volume model really puts more of the focus on the quality.

Yeah, there’s no doubt. I mean, at Cloudera. We’re a Hadoop distribution vendor and we sell big data solutions to companies, to larger enterprises that have a big data problem or have a lot of data. And we’ve done enough, close enough business, enough logos to understand in a certain industry, in a certain size company, these are the people that we have sold to. So, we know their roles, we know their titles. So if we have solved big data problems for a financial-services oriented company above 10 billion in revenues, then it would seem likely that if we found those roles and titles, in a company we haven’t sold to, that we can go scrape those, or curate those out, of that contact relevant database. We can get their phone numbers and their email addresses readily available, that we can send very specific messages, and notice all the problems that they may have as well. So, we’re no longer kind of spraying and praying a message out there to random companies to every employee or a large group of people inside that, we’re sending the message to a group of individuals at one company. So, I wouldn’t at all call it spamming a bunch of people at one company, I would call it taking a business relevant message and hoping that anywhere from 10 to 50 people that might own or solving that problem at that company– and we believe that if we send them around a message, they’re going to open the email, they’re going to look at it, read it, and we hope they respond or at least click through on a link that is directing them maybe to some metric, some ROI metrics, or some research about how our technology has solved a problem for another like company.

Yeah. And I think one of the things for people that listen to this, because some of the feedback you hear about the account-based model is that’s really nothing new, right? I mean, if you’ve been selling into a large enterprise, you’ve talked about, if you’ve sold into a few of those accounts, you have to identify the relevant roles and influencers and so on. But one of the real differences is, I think people really understand is that now there’s– given the technology that’s available, giving the resources, these are the databases available, you can certainly accelerate that process in a much more targeted way than you could before. Whereas before it could be, you make a phone call you open a door, you get a reference to somebody, make another phone call in, and so on. You have to do it very methodically, but very slowly build up those lists of contacts.

Yeah, I think you’re exactly right. And certainly, when I got my start at Xerox that’s exactly what I was doing. And then I was a sales rep and I was doing it as a one-off basis. And I’ll go back to the first part of this, which is the sales development. If you have this role at Cloudera, I can have one SDR execute two to three of these campaigns a week. So, over a period of a month or two, and we’ve got close to 60 SDRs. We can launch, one to 200 outbound targeted campaigns a week into a hundred or more accounts.

All right. Well, let’s just let’s talk about one of those campaigns looks like. It sort of starts with you put together this consolidated view of an account, I guess to start with. You who these people are, you’ve either through LinkedIn or navigator net prospects or.com or someplace. You’ve identified who those contacts are within that account that are likely to as you said, to have the pain points associated with your solution.

That’s exactly right. And there are a number of places you can go, including by looking at your own CRM and understanding how many of those contacts have already opted in from previous campaigns that you may have done. But what we’re finding is that, where we may have 10 or 20, opt in contacts already in our CRM Cloudera, when we’re going into LinkedIn or data.com, we’re finding almost 10X the number of targeted individuals that have not opted in, but that are generally available in a database like LinkedIn, which is, sales professionals all over the world are using that to target messaging to. And so we’re just improving upon where our marketing team has perhaps garnered a handful of names here and there over a handful of years, we’re augmenting that with several more extremely relevant titles and roles that aren’t in there and adding that to this campaign, this outbound kind of email drip sequence campaign that we’re then going to put together. And I think that’s where some of the other art comes from is, how many emails you decide to put together in one of these outbound campaigns. And whether you sequence them out, and what is the cadence to do it. We don’t do it by the hour by the week, but we drip them out somewhere between two and a half, three and a half days after each other.

So, talk about the sequence you’re going to use, we’ll talk about the tools you use to do that. But before we get to that question, how about, once you got your consolidated view of your account, let’s say for Cloudera, on average, for one of your ideal client prospects, how many contacts are you reaching out to within a single account?

So, the bigger the accounts, the more relevant titles and roles that we have to go after. I’ll give you an example. If you’re going after a very large, hundred billion dollar plus financial institution that is global, that has divisions and departments all over the world, you might be talking up to hundreds of people that have titles, relevant titles, and you go down into, let’s say, market, there may only be five or 10 people. So, there’s a lot of people that have asked me what’s the ideal size account. For us, it’s companies about a billion dollars, one B, a billion dollars in revenue. Now for us, that tells us that they have enough employees, they have enough data, they have enough databases, processes were wrangling that data and providing a solution for it is probably something that they’re looking at. And there’s only 7000 of those, maybe 10 in the world. So, it’s a very manageable number for us. It’s not hundreds of thousands or millions of entities, it is five to 10,000.

Yeah, well, I spent a good chunk of my career selling to a market that had 500 accounts on it worldwide, so I know exactly what you mean. So, but I think the lesson for people listening to this is that, if you if you do the right work, the right pre-work, that there’s probably a deeper level or a higher number of people involved that have some sort of influence that you can identify beforehand that you will make sure you don’t short circuit or shortcut that process.

And we’re constantly revising the bubble. Sometimes we will go down individual contributor or give an example. In some accounts where we don’t find maybe more than 25 relevant titles, we might do a search, a keyword search, so that if someone has a Hadoop engineer in there, anywhere in their LinkedIn profile, we might add that to the list of people that we do an outbound campaign to, believing that if someone at that company has put a Hadoop engineer in their LinkedIn profile, they’re going to know likely who Cloudera is a company, but they’re going to know about our technology.

And just for people listening Hadoop is an open source software that form sort of the basis of your solution.

Correct. Yes. Sorry about that. That’s correct.

Clarifying. Okay, so your sequence then, or your cadence you put together, you said about two and a half days apart, you found works best for you. So, how many contexts, how many touch points to put into your cadence?

So, we might load in the solution we use called Outreach, anywhere from 25 to 50 on the low end, to 200 to 250 on the high end. And what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to put together a three-email sequence that will execute over a five to seven day period, with the first email going out to, let’s say it’s 100 individuals, it’s going to go out to all 100 at the same time. And the key for the very first one is to have a very relevant subject line. And also, to have what we call a hook, the very first sentence has to be something that if and when they read it, they’re there. If the subject allows them to open the email in the first sentence, he them to finish the email, then the hope is that we’ll get a reply, or we’ll get a forward. And the more relevant you can get with your subject, and the more kind of relevant you can get with your hook for your first sentence, we see that the open rates and the reply rates go up as a result.

So, what sort of open rates and reply rates do you typically find on your campaigns?

I would say that before we set up these campaigns this way, and again a lot of companies use marketing automation, whether it’s Eloqua, Marketo or Pardot, their marketing organization uses technology to nurture emails to large groups of lead objects with general messaging, we’re finding an open rate of between 5% and 8% when we did those. And an email open rate of 5% to 8%. And we were finding reply rates, 2% to 3%.

So sorry, typical marketing, open rates and reply rates, right?

Correct. And now that we are focusing on one account, but, anywhere from 50 to 250 people we are finding open rates range anywhere from 25% on the very low end up to 80% of the high end and reply rates 10% on the low end up to 45% of high end.

Wow. So, what’s the process used internally then to come up with the messaging for that account? Who’s involved with that process. Because this is not something you just cut and paste from previous ones, you’re creating a custom message it sounds like.

So, we have a role here at Cloudera called a subject matter expert. And we have six of them. And there’s one for each of our kind of target, verticals, financial services, healthcare, retail manufacturing. And those subject matter experts have spent, 20 to 30 years in those verticals. They understand our use cases and how we’re solving problems and those verticals, but they also know how to kind of walk and talk the language of those verticals, so they are the ones that are helping us put together our messaging which is very clean, very crisp and very short. And so, we use words and the language so that if we’re going into kind of a management or mid management layer and talking about use cases, they’re the ones who are writing the copy for us. So, when we represent three bullet points of how we’ve solved a big data problem at, let’s say, a large international airline, they’re talking about how we have solved that problem for other airlines by using very specific language that someone in that industry would understand. And so, when the people that we’re sending to are reading it, they believe it because my STR, so many of which are zero, or one, or two years out of college, they don’t talk that language yet. But the messages that they’re sending read like they’re coming from someone that does.

So, when they reach out to do their follow up. I presume they’re going to follow up phone calls at some point when somebody replies right to set up the meeting. It’s not done through email necessarily.

Well, what happens a lot of the times, the first thing that an SDR does is they follow up on all the replies. And the replies are typically someone directly responding, because the emails are coming from the SDRs themselves. So, the replies for, “Hey, listen, I really appreciate you sending this makes sense to me, I’d like for you to set up an appointment with my team leader or my manager”, or it could have been a foreword that got to someone above or below that person where they’re requesting a follow up. So in a lot of cases, the SDR’s quarterbacking, a request that comes directly from a reply, as we go through the replies after each of the sequence has gone out, what we’ll end up doing then is doing an outreach by phone to the people that open the email but did not reply, hoping that they’ll understand that perhaps the reason why we’re calling one, two, or three days later, and we’ll certainly reference the email that we know they opened, and maybe read through part of it.

So, if you don’t get a reply, do you do that before the 2.5 days go by and the second email goes out? Or wait till the end of the campaign?

We will typically wait for the end of the campaign. The technology we use as intelligence so that if someone opens and applies the first email, the second email will not go out.

And you do then integrate with your marketing system as well to make sure that you’re not sending drip messages to these people as well at the same time?

Yes. And again, the people that we have our own database, if they were lead objects, we automatically convert them into an account contact before we do this campaign, so they’ll no longer be left as a lead object for our marketing automation system to drip anything out to. And that’s another technology, an auto conversion or a mass conversion technology. So, an SDR, let’s take Pepsi for instance, if we’re going to do an outbound ABS campaign to Pepsi, we’ll look at our CRM and the account will already be set up because this is an strategic account, they may have 10 current contact objects in there, but another 25 lead objects that have never been converted over; we’ll first mass convert all of those over so that we create a single view of all of the opt in contacts against that target account.

And so, for the rest of the people, a lead object is just a lead, we’ll call it. So, somebody that’s a lead but not a contact.

Correct. But in the way we work a Cloudera, a lead object that comes from Pepsi should have been converted over against the account by an SDR at some point. But I think any operator will understand that it often happens, and whether those leads came in before your operational setup, or even after, to expect the process operation of SDR to convert everything that comes in against an existing account, that’s a very difficult and complicated process. So, we put automation in there. And we put all of our target accounts, so Pepsi would be in our auto conversion library. So, if a lead tomorrow would come in from Pepsi or something would automatically convert it and it would go from a lead object into a contact against that account. I don’t know if that makes sense, it makes things a lot cleaner. And then both the SDR and the covering target account rep, they get an alert from the system that we have a new inbound inquiry. The fact that we auto converted makes things a lot cleaner on our end, and then we don’t have orphaned lead objects, where they end up in a marketing automation system and they get dripped out these, watered down, generalized– I don’t want to say watered down, but more generally message —

–Just in case your marketing departments listening.

You got me. Thanks for that.

So, you use a tool like lean data or something to do your mass conversion.

That’s exactly the tool we use.

Okay Alright. A couple questions that sort of fall out of this. So, your SDRs that are setting up the appointments and so on, they don’t get involved with qualification at all. If they’ve got a reply, somebody said, “We’re interested”, they’re just there to set that meeting.

As a part of the qualification and setting up the meeting, they certainly– I mean these are our targeted accounts. In a sense, just getting someone to want to talk to us, makes it qualified. But while the was open, they’ll certainly ask as many of the questions that we want to prep our covering sales reps as they can, but really, it’s to set that appointment so the account executive can make their– whether it’s their first, second, or third touch point into the account. So, by definition, these accounts are already pre-qualified because they’re our highest, most strategic accounts.

What’s the recurrent path look like for your sales development reps.

That’s something that we’ve also spent time doing. The gap from SDR to outside enterprise account executive is too wide. And so, we’ve created two other roles that allow an SDR, after they spent somewhere between one and two years, to grow into something that’s called a renewal sales rep. That is an overlay organization that allows our SDRs to grow into an overlay quota carrying role in line to an account executive. And now they’re responsible for not only guiding the rule, but also trying to find upsell and expansion opportunities.

Sometimes you see this in customer success organizations now.

Yes, but at the same time, they’re not necessarily opposed sales organization where they’re monitored on, customer sat and implementation

They are a revenue target.

Yeah, they’re making sure that the almighty renewal happens a year later. And that the process of renewing starts, six months before the renewal so we know the right people, we know if we have a happy customer. And there’s a lot of incident, there are a lot of CSM like activities that they do, but they’re really focused on making sure that renewal is guided properly and that if there are expansion opportunities of any type, that we bring those to the field. From there, if they do well, between one and two years, they can move into what’s called a corporate account manager, and that is a fully quoted, retirement quota, the quarter based inside sales rep. covers it with our sales and medium sized business, which is companies below a billion dollars. And from there, if they do well, they can make it into the field as an account executive at Cloudera.

And have you had people do the whole transition all four steps?

We have. If everything works the way it’s supposed to, it’s about a four and a half to five-year process. But because Cloudera has grown massively in the last three years, we have found SDRs in the role of a renewal right inside of a year, a renewal wrap into a corporate account sales manager role inside of the year, and out into the field inside of the year. And we’ve done that six times now.

Great. I mean, in this for this program I’ve talked to a lot of CEOs, founders, sales leaders and SaaS companies and so on, and a lot of times you ask the question about a career path, and you get sort of a blank stare.

Yeah, I mean, SDRs hours are worth their weight in gold at fast growing technology companies. And I wholeheartedly believe that people coming out of the universities’ today going into an SDR role at a venture-backed technology software company. The intelligence, the things that they’ve been multitasking since they were in high school. I mean, they’re able to do so many different things. And I sometimes joke about when I take our age and I combine it with LinkedIn navigator and I combine it with lean data and salesforce.com or CRM, it’s like this perfect video game that allows them to combine all these really cool technologies, and I give them a playbook, and I put a series of processes together and the best practice, and we coin it account based sales development. And they’re able to generate legitimate pipeline, legitimate demand for a company like Cloudera in our most coveted accounts. So, we were scaling so fast and losing SDR here in the San Francisco Bay area to other companies. So, I decided to pick up and I began hiring everyone out of our– we set up an office in Austin, Texas, and now we are hiring these professionals in the Austin market and in North America, we are operation for STR renewals, corporate inside sales is all in Austin.

Got it. Which speaks to why you are in Austin last time we spoke. Makes perfect sense now. And so, we’re going to move to the last segment of show where I got some standard questions I ask all my guests. And the first one is a hypothetical scenario. And in the scenario, this may seem like true life to you, you’ve just been hired as VP of sales by a company whose sales have stalled out. And the CEO is anxious to get some sort of spark back into the sales organization, get them turned around back on track. So, question for you is, what two things would you do your first week on the job that could have the biggest impact?

Well, as a sales operator for two decades, and an inside sales operator for two decades, the first thing I would do is run a series of requests out of salesforce.com just to understand what the existing sales team or sales organization has been doing. Are the activities represented in the CRM? I think adoption of CRM is probably one of the most important things for any CEO or executive team to understand because, if they don’t know what the sales team is doing, if they don’t know if they’re having meetings having phone calls, whether they’re face to face or online, they may not understand and have the answer to why are we not selling? And so it may just be as easy as understanding, of the 10 people we have on the team, nine of them haven’t really trained properly and abled properly, and they don’t really know how to sell they don’t have the right message.

Right. Don’t have the playbook in place.

Yeah. So, do I have the right people doing the right things? Yes or no? So anyway, if I find out that I don’t have– I can’t reverse engineer how we’ve been successful in past, then, we may have to do a restart. But understanding– I think the other thing that I would do is, I would go into– call those customers that we’ve done deals with, and then I would ask them, I would call the person, whether it was a year two or three, that has been a customer of ours, and I would ask him, “why did you buy from us? what was it? At what point in the sales cycle six months ago, a year ago to the light bulb go off for you that we were the right choice?” We’ll also understand whether or not we were competing against anyone. What are the drivers for the deal? So those are the first two things I would do. I think existing customers will guide you exactly to why they bought, and therein lies a bunch of silver bullets to how you can then backtrack into helping new reps that are onboarding understand why your customers are buying from you versus your competitors, or buying new versus doing it manually or, however they did in the past.

Yeah, not making a change. Okay, good answer. So, got some rapid-fire questions for you. Give me one-word answers, or you can elaborate if you wish. The first one is, when you personally are outselling, what’s your most powerful sales attribute?

Telling stories. I’m going to date myself here, but there’s a line in a movie called Stripes where Bill Murray goes in and says, “it’s not the uniform you wear, it’s the stories you tell. Lee Harvey, you are a madman. When you stole that cow and your friend try to make you with that cow, I want to party with cowboy”. And I think relating to your prospects, how other companies just gotten mad value or averted losses, or got gain, or made money, or whatever it was, you have to be able to tell that story and I think that’s where a lot of value is transferred.

Okay, great. So, who’s your sales role model?

I have several. I would say that I have two. The names are Kevin Bowser and Tom Riley, they’re sales leaders, they were sales contributors, they were sales managers. And then they became sales leaders. And Tom Wiley today is the CEO of the company I work for. I see him today having individual conversations with sales reps, with prospects, with customers, and he cares. And so, when I listen to him talk about not just how clever I can solve the problem, but how you the individual can bring that story, is just really kind of inspirational. And so, he’s a guy that I try to emulate, not just on the leadership and management front, but also on the individual contributor front.

What’s one book you’d recommend every salesperson read?

I was botched how you pronounce his name, but the book is called, The Greatest Salesman in the World.

Og Mandino, I believe, right?

Og Mandino, right. I read that book every couple years, and I would definitely recommend that to any new, existing or older rep leader or manager.

Great recommendation. So last question for you. What music is on your playlist these days?

John and Simon Garfunkel. I am folk rock guy, I play the guitar, and I’m trying to learn piano. And I keep going back to those two artists.

Okay, great. Well, Lars, thanks for being on the show. Tell folks how they can find out more about Cloudera or to get in contact with you.

Well, if you go to our website cloudera.com, we’ve engineered it so that at any level if you want to contact us, you can hit us up, it’ll go to one of my SDRs around the globe, and if they don’t get back to you within minutes or hours, then let me know because that’s how we’ve set up the operation.

Perfect. I love that somebody who wrote a book called, Zero Time Selling, that’s exactly what you want here. Lars again, thanks. And remember, friends make it a part of your day, every day, to deliberately learn something new to help you accelerate your success. An easy way to do that is to make this podcast Accelerate a part of your daily routine, listening on your commute in the gym or as part of your morning sales meeting. That way you won’t miss any of my conversations with top business experts like my guest today, LN, who shared his expertise about how to accelerate the growth of your business. So, thanks for joining me. Until next time, this is AP. Good selling everyone.

Thanks for listening to the show. If you like what you heard and want to make sure you don’t miss any upcoming episodes, please subscribe to this podcast on iTunes or stitcher.com. For more information about today’s guests, visit my website at andypaul.com.

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