Let’s not kid ourselves. We’re in a recession. So what does that mean for the marketing and sales strategies you need to implement going forward? As someone who has successfully sold through five periods of significant economic disruption, I can tell you that in times like these there are always opportunities to be found.
In today’s episode, Chris Grams (head of Marketing at Tidelift) joins me along with my great friend, Bridget Gleason (head of sales and customer success at Tidelift) to to talk about how to sell into a future that is full of uncertainty. Listen in and learn strategies that you can use to identify opportunities for your sales and marketing in the coming months.
Andy Paul: Welcome to the show.
Chris Grams: Hi, Andy. Thanks for having us.
Bridget Gleason: Yeah, Andy, nice to talk to you.
Andy Paul: Bridget brought her friends. So, so Bridget, introduce your friend. Who’s joining us today,
Bridget Gleason: So Chris and I are colleagues at Tide Lift. We are part of the smarketing team, and
Oh. We’re going for I know, we don’t, Chris can chime in. We didn’t really like the name smarketing, but it actually we’re one team. Sales and marketing. We are truly integrated one team. We have our meetings together, we’ve got one funnel. We report to the board together. We’re really integrated, it’s, it’s an amazing, amazing friendship. Chris, why don’t you give just a little bit about your background because you also have sort of an unusual background and have done some really great, interesting things.
Chris Grams: Yeah, thanks, Bridgette. Well, I’m, I’m actually, yeah, I’m an accidental marketer. I would say. I actually started off my career as a editor in book publishing and then somehow made it to a company called Red Hat when they were very, very small. It was about a hundred people when I joined. And, and started off in a sort of communications role with them. And long story short spent 10 years there, the company became about a billion dollar company, and then I left and I actually started my own branding agency and, where I was basically the head of sales for the next 10 years, and then ended up leaving to join one of my clients and some old friends from Red Hat, which was, which was Tide Lift.
And that’s how I met Bridget. And, And, you know, I would say that has been one of the coolest experiences of my marketing career, getting a chance to work with Bridget here, just for the last six or eight months, because I’d never gotten a chance to do this whole smarketing thing before. And, and like Bridget said, both of us kind of wince when we hear that term, I think it actually comes out of, the HubSpot guys, you know, back in the, you know, like 2006, 2007, Mike Volpi and all those folks, and, you know, HubSpot has a tendency to be kind of cheesy with some of their marketing and stuff like that. So it’s sort of a cheesy term. And the other thing I don’t like about it. Is that, you know, sales only gets an S and marketing gets the whole word, so it’s like marketing, but, but you know, sales, like Bridget said, we’re really sort of integrated. as one team we share the same OKR’s we have our meetings together. You know, we hang out together when we’re at company meetings and stuff like that. So, so yeah, it’s really feels good to do this for the first time as one team.
Bridget Gleason: And let’s not forget though, Chris, the, I know you have more of the letters, but S is capitalized.
Chris Grams: That’s a good point. And it’s also first.
Bridget Gleason: And it’s first
Andy Paul: And it’s first day. Let’s not forget that. So really do use the, the jargon of the day as you’ve achieved sort of this perfect quote unquote perfect sales, marketing alignment.
Chris Grams: Well, I certainly hope so. Yeah. I, Bridget and I, Yeah, like we’re close and we’re friends and, and we enjoy hanging out with each other. It’s one of the things I look forward to every week is my hour one-on-one with Bridget, where we get to catch up on stuff. And I feel like our teams are working that way too, where they enjoy working together.
And my experience has been certainly in bigger companies like Red Hat and previously I was an IBM sales, some marketing don’t always get along and don’t see eye to eye and don’t have the same, same goals.
Andy Paul: Yeah. So let’s talk in servant practicalities about how that, how that really works. So you said you share a funnel, so describe that-
Bridget Gleason: Chris, maybe, o you want to talk about, our OKRs. Because that really shows the shared funnel that we they’re all integrated. And we really, we drive the company, drives its business on OKRs, we go through them at our weekly meeting.
Andy Paul: Right. So explain to people what the OKR is.
Chris Grams: Yeah, so, okay. Are for anybody who’s not familiar with that term stands for Objectives, Key Results. It’s came out of some technology world. I think it was actually a VC who originally, maybe, or at Intel. Sequoia, yeah. Was Sequoia and maybe a former Intel person who, who originally came up with the term. But the idea is it’s very simple. It’s just sort of like quarterly goals, setting them up, but keeping them simple and having them operate across the entire company. So you set an objective, which is sort of the thing that everyone can rally behind. And it’s usually something that feels exciting or feels meaty.
Like a big revenue target or. You know, something that you’re going to do on the product side. And then the key results are the, the simple metrics that you use to track those and, and you change them in our case. some organizations change them at different intervals. We changed them once a quarter, although we don’t necessarily change them completely once a quarter.
Sometimes we have a key results that go over from quarter to quarter, and the, the way that Bridget and I have done it is we’ve just set, one set of OKRs for marketing, for sales and marketing as a whole. And where I think the misalignment happens between sales and marketing, in some organizations, is when they’re setting their goals. Like marketing, for example, might just have a lead goal. And so they’re just have a top of funnel lead goal to generate, you know, 5,000 leads in a quarter. And if they get their 5,000 leads at the end of the quarter, they do a happy dance and they’re like, sales, why aren’t you delivering the sales? You know, We knocked it out of the park.
Well, Bridget, I don’t even really bother with, like, we have a, a leads number that we’re going for as a target, but it’s actually not even a key result for us. The, the overall thing is hitting the revenue goal. And if we’re not hitting the revenue goal, then we feel like as a sales and marketing group that we’re not doing our job correctly.
And then the thing that we care about most next after the revenue goal, is opportunities created. And so, so my team is not incented to go out and, thank goodness, go out and do, just go to trade shows and scan badges and give away t-shirts because there are no, events or trade shows right now. So that would be a tough thing for us to hit our number on. But instead, we’re trying to say, what are the smartest things we can do on a marketing side that are going to generate actual opportunities that we can convert into revenue because we’re not winning in less we’re hitting that revenue number along with our counterparts in sales.
Andy Paul: Interesting then, then how do you work together? Like working on deals or do you, is that a handoff? Once there’s an opportunity-
Chris Grams: you want to take that one, Bridget?
Bridget Gleason: Oh gosh, the marketing and smarketing is so integrated also, just as when you say something becomes an opportunity, Andy, is that your question?
Andy Paul: Yeah, once a deal is actively being worked. How does marketing participate at that point?
Bridget Gleason: Oh, well, we’re, we’re first of all, going after big accounts. So we’re definitely. We don’t even do ABM. We do AB, but, there’s content that they create that can be used sort of, to expand our reach within accounts. There’s webinars that they put on. hey, they work with us on, we’ve got, an advisory workshops slash diagnostic that marketing is our partner in putting together proposals, making them beautiful, doing presentations, helping with demos. We are truly integrated, truly integrated. It’s an even going, going earlier in the funnel. We in our leadership team meeting today, we were talking, we were looking at the OKRs and we traditionally had been very event, sort of, lead focused. And our CEO had asked about the lead number going up when we don’t have events. And it’s because the whole team really shifted emotion around doing more outbound. We always did outbound, but doing more outbound. And so it’s, it’s the sales team. And the, I mean, truly this marketing team, creating assets, webinars, helping with some of the cadences that we do, it’s a very, fluid organization. And yet people are clear about what, like what they’re adding to it. So it’s not, it’s not chaotic. It’s
Chris Grams: We’ve tried to be really, really smart about, especially in the environment that we’re in right now, where we can’t go out and get events from, from trade shows or things like that, which was, you know, that’s a little bit the lazy marketing dream. You know, if you do just have a lead number, you can just sign up for a bunch of events.
If you have the money and then go out and scan enough badges to hit your number. But what we’ve done instead of that sort of approach now is, you know, like Bridget said, it’s a more account based marketing or account based marketing, you know, the way we refer to it at ABS, kind of approach where, because we’re not investing that effort in events, we have bandwidth on the marketing side to go out and do deep dives on researching good outbound leads and then how to best approach those leads. Like what are the materials? So, for example, we’re doing these slide docs based on, Nancy Duarte, sort of originated that term, but they’re basically sort of halfway between a white paper and a presentation that somebody could read on their own, but we’re doing things like very customized slide docs, for verticals that we’re going after.
So that our salespeople, when they go into these outbound, they’re not just going in cold asking to do a demo or something like that. They can actually offer something of value to give these, these prospects, our perspective on their world, with what tide lift brings in terms of value. So it’s very much, you know, a straight account based marketing kind of approach where we’re trying to bring value and, not just go in, you know, cold calling, but instead bring information.
That, the prospects will want. And, and that’s a partnership. That’s not something that sales can have time to do on their own and still be able to be on the phone and contacting people via email. So we’re trying to create those materials to support their efforts.
Andy Paul: So last question on this, because we’ve got another topic we want to, we brought you here to talk about, but this is fascinating is, so how, if you’re that. Tightly connected and working in tandem, throughout the selling process. So how has that affected how you compensate both sales and marketing?
Bridget Gleason: It hasn’t.
Andy Paul: Okay. The reason I ask is that you have seen situations where you have that title alignment, where, you know, sales is you know, perhaps doesn’t isn’t as on aggressive, a commission plan and sent to plan because, you know, they couldn’t get it done without the marketing people.
Chris Grams: Yeah. From our perspective, I feel like on the marketing side, the, we’re such a goal oriented company, and I’m a goal oriented person and I think Bridget is very goal oriented person. Our teams are just driven. They just want to achieve the goals. Like they really, you know, they, our teams are super, super excited every week to sort of show the progress against the goals we do.
Know, weekly, we’re always sort of tracking against those OKRs probably to a point where people roll their eyes about, you know, like, there’s Chris talking about the OKRs again, but, but we really, really stay on point with it. And, I think we have a competitive team, like a team that really, really wants to win and succeed and hit the goals and for good reason, cause we feel like we’re doing something, our company is doing something meaningful in the world. That’s actually gonna make a dent and, and and so people are excited about it.
Andy Paul: Yeah, no, I don’t doubt that. I was just, the point was about sometimes when you truly have a team sales, you, you reward people differently than you would have felt was more of a alone sale or one or two people working on it. So just curious about that. All right. So main top we’re gonna talk about today was, was, how to sell in a recession. Or how to establish your sales priorities in a, in a downturn. So this is based on a presentation that you guys had made to potential investors. I thought it was really interesting. So tell us a little bit about your thinking and putting that together.
Bridget Gleason: Okay, I’ll start. And then Chris, if you want to chime in. So when this, when this hit, we had to adjust really quickly and just, I don’t think ours was a huge pivot, Chris and I made some choices earlier in the year or late last year around moving to a more account-based approach, which served us well and having a target audience, but ended up being sort of in the right quadrant in terms of their financial health and they aren’t as affected by COVID.
So anyway, we had to, we had to make some, some quick edits and just to the, we were doing things no more events, et cetera. And so I guess the, the genesis of this was then being asked to present to a group on alright, we’ve got a bunch of young, small companies first time CEOs, how should they be thinking about prioritizing sales in this time of COVID-19? And the bottom line, and we, we, we talked sort of at very little, was theoretical. We tried to give them things that were, were much more practical, but kind of the bottom line is there’s still money out there, but you, but you have to go find it. And so the river’s still flowing. It’s just not as flowing as robustly and it may have been diverted. And in certain situations also, budgets are increasing or maybe had no impact. And in some cases they’re even, like we do a lot around, are kind of tied to, kind of digital transformation. And some of those are actually accelerated.
Andy Paul: Yeah, you make the point up front, which I think is really important for people to keep in mind because there’s a lot of wisdom in there was trust that you can fear a recession and go into sort of shutdown mode. I’ve been on startups years ago, or, you know, they thought they could cut to the bone and preserve the company rather than going out and investing in, in finding the opportunities. And you talk about that as you know, there’s always opportunity to be found. It’s just that, you know, there’s been a shift in the way people are prioritizing what needs to get accomplished and you need to be in tune with that.
Bridget Gleason: Right. And, and we, we sort of framed the presentation again, trying to be very pragmatic around who is it that you should be targeting, you know, who, if, if your target had been restaurants. Okay. You may need to rethink that a bit. Are there any changes sort of any changes that you should make to your product offering?
how kind of the message that meant by which you are going to, to, to interact. So again, we did, we have a lot of our leads coming from events. If that’s gone, what do you do? And then finally, kind of the, why. And we found our messaging had to shift also. So those were the things that we then sort of pulled apart and talked a bit about different ideas, different things that we were doing at tide lift, and offering those up as things that could be useful in other environments and other companies.
Andy Paul: Yeah, and there’s going to be some permanent structural changes, obviously that come about as a result of, of COVID-19 that wall. I think fundamentally impact how accounts are addressed. I’m just curious what you guys are thinking about that.
Chris Grams: Well, I think certainly one thing you mentioned this one earlier, but it was, it was just sort of bad timing, but we were just prepared to launch this sort of advisory workshop program that we had developed where we are going to go out and do sort of a design thinking based, you know, series of conversations with a client to help them understand in our, in our case, you know, we’re help helping sell software and services around open source software. And so we were going to help them understand how, to best utilized opensource. And we had to very quickly pivot just because we have a couple of these opportunities that were in great shape, but then we quickly realized as this started happening. That nobody is going to be flying anywhere for awhile.
And we weren’t going to be able to do these as in person meetings. So like taking that offering and reframing it as a diagnostic that was able to be done online and preserve as much of the fidelity as possible in doing that. That was, Yeah, that was a challenge. But I think also just in terms of like sales conversations and, you know, the way we’re having conversations, now, there’s some things that, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s hard, things like there’s never any substitute for meeting somebody for you, but there’s also silver lining om that I think it’s, I think it’s going to be easier to get more people in one place. If it’s on a zoom call, you know, sometimes you’re meeting with a client and. If something happened, they weren’t able to get into the office that day or had to work from home or there’s people on two different continents and so you would have to travel to go see them both. And you end up flying all the way across country to go into an office where you’re talking to one person live, and three people are on a conference call.
You know, now it’s almost like levels the playing field and some of these cases where we can get the right people on the, on the zoom call, talking together. I don’t know. Bridget, what do you think?
Bridget Gleason: Yeah, I think that’s a really, really great example is just the pivot that we had to make from an in person two day event to an online diagnostic. But boy, we’ve had meetings where we’ve had people from all over the country and also Europe, it’s hard to get Europe, us and APAC at the same time. bigger meetings than we ever could have gotten in person or ever would. So we’re getting, we’re getting, good participation.
Andy Paul: So when things again, whatever the next normal is when they serve, reached that stage, do you wanna be able to preserve what you’re doing now, having better meetings, bigger meetings, online, people participating. As opposed to you said before is traveling and getting one in person and three remote. Is that something you wanna preserve?
Bridget Gleason: I think we definitely are going to look to preserve the things that. Are helping to accelerate deals and progress. So doing more remote, certainly. Cause I think we’re going to be situation, for awhile.
Andy Paul: I agree.
Bridget Gleason: There are some things that we were talking about earlier today in our leadership team meeting. Just the, the, not only the creativity, but just the thought and the process and the strategy around connecting in a meaningful way with prospects to, to, to have conversations with them, that our team is doing is nothing short of brilliant and, and how they’re figuring out-
Andy Paul: Give us an example.
Bridget Gleason: So we, we had a. an event that we were inviting people to a financial services event, high-end contacts and the BDR manager did this strategy where she would connect with a bunch of people on LinkedIn, but not send a message. So this is all very deliberate connect with them on LinkedIn. When they replied, she would get a notice on her phone. Maybe Sunday, she would reply right back, letting them know why she wanted to connect. And I don’t know, there were at least a dozen, we post everything in Slack, a dozen examples with her alone of interactions that she would have with people on LinkedIn about this, this event.
She got amazing traction. I’ll just give you the LinkedIn, since I’ve already started on that using LinkedIn where the BDRs have tagged prospects in these target accounts by persona and the call blitzes that they’re doing. They had a call blitz yesterday, and I think three opportunities came out of it.
It was an hour, hour and a half call blitz. We, I think another one we had in maybe a week of the five, let’s say five discovery calls, all five turned into opportunities. So getting better at targeting and the right message. So just having to be better. They just have to be better to cut through the clutter and to get that meeting.
And they’re starting to put process around it. And again, this is the combined team. there are a couple people that are on the marketing side of smarketing that say, and the team, the individual like regional team meetings each week, so that they have a good pulse on. Content that needs to be created.
Okay. If we do a webinar, what does it need to be? Okay. What’s the right kind of messaging. Do we need to have that reflected back on the website? How does the trial need to be tweaked based on the personas that we’re seeing?
Andy Paul: Well, you have an interesting line in the presentation, which is saying a recommendation actually, which was concentrate on fewer leads, but contact them more thoughtfully. And more often and isn’t that what we should be doing anyway.
Bridget Gleason: Yes.
Andy Paul: I mean, it’s recommended as a strategy for selling into a downturn, but I sort of look at that and think, well, in that what we should be doing anyway, and I know many companies don’t, I mean, that’s what I think that’s a good recommendation is for all times, not just now.
Bridget Gleason: Well, I think this is one of the gifts of COVID-19 is that it forces companies, and I’ll say our teams are a great example, too, to implement more best practices and just be better, you know, we can get lazy. And, and I don’t think we have a, I don’t think our team is lazy at all, but I think it’s when you’ve got a lot of different ways, ways to contact you.
We’re just not as sharp as we could be. And I think one of the great benefits is, is the, narrowing of, of things that we have resources available to us to connect and. As you asked Andy, like, how, which of these are we going to take forward when this passes? I think we’re going to take a lot of them because they typically are best practices.
Chris Grams: Yeah. I sometimes talk about it as a, the power of creative constraints that, when you’re in a recession or a recessionary environment and budgets are cut, you’re sort of forced to be a little bit more creative and do things just like a painter who might do their best work when they work with a palette of just two colors versus when they have every color, you know, possible that they could choose from.
Sometimes it’s the focusing that allows you to do the best work. And I found that certainly during going through multiple recessions at Red Hat, where we didn’t have budget, to do things, so we did some of our most innovative creative work in those periods.
And I, I feel like we’re getting ready to go through that renaissance again. At Tide Lift where we’re starting to, as Bridget said, we’re starting to learn some new things and try some new things that we might not have done. If we could just throw a couple extra dollars at adwords. But, but now with limitations, we’re going to have to, you know, try some things that are a little bit more fun or interesting or exciting to get people’s attention, out of necessity, more than anything else.
Andy Paul: Then, how do you preserve that, that spirit going forward? Right? Because then not always the tendency is to sort of fall back on the old times, get better. We’ve got more money. We can do these things. And to Bridget’s point, it’s not, you’re just being lazy, but.
Chris Grams: I think it’s culture. I think it, you just have to build it yeah it into the culture where people recognize that. And some of it comes from, you know, like when my early days at Red Hat, I started Red Hat in 1999. And so, you know, my early days were sort of the dot bomb, 2001 sort of timeframe, where Red Hat stock price went from $150 a share to like $3-$4 a share.
And, you know, we were kind of dealing with trying to figure out how to sell into the enterprise when, You know, most companies were going under in the, you know, sort of internet field. And from the very start, we kind of built it into the culture. And then later when we probably could have spent more money on stuff,we just didn’t.
Cause we had this more, you know, we had a skill set of people who are more creative that we had hired. Cause those are the people who sort of survived during those recessionary times and thrived and you know, I, I hope and wish the same, for, for us and for other businesses that are similar situations in what we’re in right now that they find that these skills that they’re developing right now and those sort of creative constraints that are putting in place, they can kind of build them into the culture as guardrails.
So in times where they have more money and they have more opportunity to go out to trade shows and do things like that. They’re approaching them in a smarter way.
Andy Paul: Well, I think it’s a good perspective because yeah, it starts with management and the culture and, you know, we’ve all seen it in, you know, particularly in, let’s say Saas companies, that’s, you know, the emphasis on how many calls you’re making and how many outreaches and not as much emphasis on. Was that a good conversation, you know, was that a good call to make, are we making the right, the right calls to the right people, right targets and yeah, you just don’t wanna see people fall back into the, the bad ways. Cause I think you’re right. I think this is an opportunity to say, yeah, maybe for many companies in our growth rates may be slowed down for a year or two, but if we really find the opportunities to your point in the presentation, find the problems that need to be solved during this time and help people solve them. Then that’s a different way of reaching out to people in different conversations you’ll be having.
Bridget Gleason: Yeah, I think it’s culture. I think it’s culture because it would be easy to just go back, you know, go back and do it the old way, but it’s certainly not our culture at tide lift. Like we’re pretty, we’re pretty lean.
Andy Paul: Yeah, I think it’s really the, the, The question that so many sales organizations are gonna have to ask themselves is yeah, we’re not, yeah. Businesses going to be down for some and growth rates. Won’t be as high as they have been. which is nature of recession, but it’s it’s yeah, they have to ask stuff. Why would you want to go back automatically? Just assume you want to go back to doing what you were doing in January, December of last year or January of this year as soon as we get to see some light at the end of the tunnel.
Chris Grams: Yeah, it just depends on whether the new stuff that you implement is working. Right. I mean, like if we’re, if we’re learning some new things with these creative constraints in place and they work, why wouldn’t you keep doing them? Like, you know, like those would be things that you would want to keep doing if you’re seeing results that are maybe even in some cases better than they were before.
Like Bridget said, we started this shift to account based marketing, last fall before this happened. But now, like when we originally talked about it, I think we were sort of thinking it as like 50, 50, you know, account based marketing and more sort of traditional demand gen, type. And now, I don’t know if we’d go back.
I don’t think we’d go back to it 50 50, because we’re seeing such momentum with the account based efforts and we’re seeing the way the teams are collaborating more. It feels to me like, maybe 50, 50, wasn’t the right mix after all.
Bridget Gleason: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, we’re learning a lot. We’re learning a lot. And I would say is as stressful and uncertain as these times are, we’re having a great time. Like we’re really enjoying, we’re really enjoying it and figuring it out and doing it together and being scrappy. And we’re, we’re having a good
Chris Grams: I think I’d like to get out of the house more though.
Andy Paul: Yeah, I was going to say, withstanding the fact your quarantine in your home and can’t go anywhere, but except for the grocery store, but
Bridget Gleason: you know what though? You have to look glass half full you to glass, half
Andy Paul: Well, no, and I, I agree, I think, yeah, for a lot of companies that, that have come into this and embrace our philosophy you have, which is, yeah, there’s still opportunities to grow here. We got to pick our targets more carefully. We’ve gotta be prepared to have better conversations with them and emphasize the fact that we are selling to people and where we can empathize with them and what they’re going through.
Find the common ground is as Bridget, you and I have talked about. Then, yeah, this can be a very productive time and there are lots of lessons to be learned that can be carried over to when the environment obviously starts changing to whatever comes next
Bridget Gleason: And can I also say if I never go to a tech conference in Las Vegas? Yes. Again, I will be eternally grateful
Chris Grams: I don’t miss it either.
Andy Paul: Yeah, I was gonna say, who misses that? I mean, I know there are people love Vegas and so on, but I think it’s sort of true of, of a lot of the conferences you attend some of the virtual summits and it’s like, yeah. You know, I miss maybe getting out and meeting some people and meeting some new people, but actually still been doing that.
Yeah. But I have the benefit of doing it through those podcasts, but, yeah, you can still come out and connect with people and have conversations and don’t have to go to Vegas to do it.
Bridget Gleason: Amen.
Andy Paul: Yeah, so, alright, well guys, thank you very much for spending this time with us. Bridget, Chris, if people want to connect with you guys, how can they do that?
Bridget Gleason: firstname.lastname@example.org Twitter.
Chris Grams: And I’m email@example.com and CDgrams on Twitter.
Andy Paul: CDgrams love it. It’s like a musician name.
Chris Grams: Absolutely.
Andy Paul: like it.
Bridget Gleason: he’s a musician.
Chris Grams: I am a bit, I play bass usually in bands, but, I’ve played just about every instrument. I’ve got a room full of them here.
Andy Paul: Wow. Wow. I’d like to hear your music sometime. Maybe we’ll show, how did you do the theme song for the show?
Chris Grams: Bridget, still trying to get me to do a, a, tide lift, a tide lift song for, for the company too. That’s that’s somewhere on the West, underneath meet bread revenue number.
Andy Paul: Yeah.
Bridget Gleason: yeah, right. That’s right. Yeah. We need a theme song.
Andy Paul: The tide lift Anthem. That’s what I want to hear.
Bridget Gleason: That’s right. Oh my God. I can’t wait. Yes, I can’t wait.
Andy Paul: classic rock and roll Anthem. Like, you know, Starship, we built the city, something like that. Yeah.
Bridget Gleason: okay. That’s the challenge.
Andy Paul: Alright. Alright guys. Thank you
Chris Grams: Andy. Nice to meet you.
Bridget Gleason: Thanks.